My theory of The Lion King timeline

[Kieran]

Here's my theory of the timeline including both movies, The Lion King + The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride. Tell me what you think and what are your visions?

I theotize this timeline based on these facts from the DVD/Laserdisc extras and creator interviews:
x Both movies' production studied real life lions.
x The first film's production made appearence distinguishment between a cub, an adolescent and an adult. As in they paid attention to and applied aging designs.
x The sequel's production looked into the first production's designs to make their film alike.
x The creators said that originally they intented to add "Kenya, 2 years later" after the first adult Simba scene.
x The sequel's animator has confirmed that the cub seen at the end of the first film is Kiara.
+ The rumour that they originally intented Kovu to be Scar's biological son. If it's true, it's likely they meant Scar and Kovu to have met and Scar personally choose him when they changed it into an adoption case.

THE LION KING TIMELINE:

• Baby Simba's blessing ceremony / prsentation.
  
  
• 6 months later: Mufasa's death/Simba runs away.
  (The movie script says "now a full grown cub" and he asked Timon for meat to eat which would be a sign of a full grown cub, and a cub doesn't start eating meat before 6 months. Also his well formed tail tuft speaks of this age. His size is close to it too.)
  
  
• 4½ years later: first adult Simba scene.
  (His mane seems very long, like it wouldn't grow much anymore, implying he was 5 years old.)
  
  
• 2 years later: Kovu and Vitani are born. A month later Scar has evaluated Kovu and chosen him as his heir.
  
  
• The 7-years old Simba returns and reclaims the throne. The same night/the next day Zira & co. are intorduced to him and he decides to exile them immediately/in a few days.
  (No reason to assume the intdofuction to delay, and the film makes clear he can not accept even one of them into his pride basically because he sees them all as Scar's heirs. So I assume he didn't keep them around for long.)
  
  
• A month from the reclaim/crowning: Simba and Nala mate and Kiara is conceived.
  (I can't imagine Simba and Nala mating in the jungle, it'd be too fast paced relationship development for their situation. And I'd think Simba wanted to adjust before having to stress about possibly upcoming fatherhood. I'd actually rather see they waited at least 2 months but the way they did Kovu, seems to force Kiara's conception happen very soon from the reclaim.)
  
  
• 3 months later: Kiara is born. In these four months the Pridelands has recovered quite a lot. Kovu and Vitani are 5 months old.
  
  
• 2 weeks later: Kiara's blessing ceremony / prsentation.
  
  
• 6 months later: Kiara bumps into Kovu who's now 11 months old but the size of a 6-month old for lack of quality food since birth.
  (Not sure if Kovu should have that much mane growing yet, but he can't be older or else he'd be a midget. That's also why I believe he and Vitani are litter mates. I think the mane tuft is there as artistic freedom thing making the point that he's supposed to be remarakbly older than Kiara is and cub Simba & Nala were. I think they found a better food source in time before Kovu hit puberty, to make Kovu big and strong.)
  
  
• 2 years later: Kovu wiggles his way into Simba's pride. Kiara and Kovu fall in love. The war occurs in a few days. So at the end Kiara is 2,5 years old, Kovu 3 years old, Simba 10+ years old.
  (Females start practicing hunting independently around the age of 2, Kovu seems full grown but his mane seems shorter than Simba's and both Kiara and Kovu act very teenagely.)
  
  
• The entity of the timeline shown in the films seems to cover approximately 10 years.
  

[TheLionPrince]

I'll have to disagree with you on your theory on how long was Simba's self-exile. My theory will be based on the information on Wikipedia which gets its info from reliable sources, though using the creators's words is just as equally reliable as well.

Simba fleed from the Pridelands by the time he was at least 6 months, okay, I'll agree with you on that. A book source on Wikipedia states lionesses reproduce by the time they are 4 years old, as Nala has her first cub. I wouldn't count "Kenya, 2 years later" after we first see adult Simba because they didn't included in the final version film. If they intended it, they would have been put there, but they didn't so it doesn't count. Plus, adult Simba at the end of Lion King didn't look as full-grown because in the official sequel, his mane is grown. So, Simba's self-exile would be 3½ years plus another ½ year for the Pridelands to replenish itself.

So, by the time Simba becomes king, he is 4 years, and during the replenishing, Nala is old enough to reproduce (since Nala and Simba appear to be the same age), and another ½ year for Kiara/Fluffy to be born and grow fur so it can presented before the Pridelands.

Since 4½ years has passed, another 6 months has passed since Kiara has her tail tuft, and can devour meat. So, Simba and Nala are 5 years old by then. Cub Kovu would be another 6 months older than cub Kiara as Kovu is older than cub Simba due to the ear rims. So, cub Kovu is 1 year old and Kiara is ½ year old.

Another four years pass, so adult Kovu is 5 years, and is capable of challenging and displacing the adult male(s) associated with another pride. Kiara is 4½ years and Simba and Nala are 9 years old.

So, your estimates and mine's are pretty close. Hopefully, I made everything clear.

[Kieran]

And what is the reliable source the Wikipedia article uses? I can't imagine a source more reliable than the film's creators themselves. o.O Like, one can always draw lion behaviour facts from real lions and apply them to a film about lions...But I would sooner apply the facts from the film's makers. ;D

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

A book source on Wikipedia states lionesses reproduce by the time they are 4 years old, as Nala has her first cub.

But adult Nala's age has never been officially stated and the age 4 is not the only year lionesses may have babies. Combined to how they don't have to start reproducing at that specific age. They're just capable to. Being able doesn't automatically mean you will choose to do it. I know real lions probably do and they do it like 50 times a day around the year apart from the time period lionesses' nurse their current litter...
...but these being Disney lions who apparently do not reproduce even as much as humans do...Hence, Simba and Nala appeared to be the only cubs in the pride formed by apparently two males and twenty lionessess (and possibly rogues allowed to mate with them.) And no cubs whatsoever during Scar's reign. Hence, as TLK lions don't act real life lion ways much, I wouldn't be so absolute with real lions' facts applying in this matter.

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

I wouldn't count "Kenya, 2 years later" after we first see adult Simba because they didn't included in the final version film. If they intended it, they would have been put there, but they didn't so it doesn't count.

I think it counts, because they did not say that they'd changed their minds. They said that they didn't include it because of some taste/visual issue, I don't remember the exact phrasing but it certainly was not as if they'd changed their minds about the years passing. It still is two years later in their intent.

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

Plus, adult Simba at the end of Lion King didn't look as full-grown because in the official sequel, his mane is grown. So, Simba's self-exile would be 3½ years plus another ½ year for the Pridelands to replenish itself.

I'm thinking his mane is grown because the animators were different. Isn't the mane longer already in the opening scene of SP? And that, according to Kovu's animator, is the exact same scene we see at the end of TLK. As in it starts off exactly from where the first film left us, with nothing in between.

So, after all above, I'm sticking to my theory that Simba was around 7 years old at the end of TLK/beginning of SP.

Good point about Kovu possibly being 5-years old, for supposedly being able to challenge another male. But then again, was he? We don't exactly get to see him do that at any point. Perhaps Zira just thinks he was ready regardless of his too young age?

Regarding the Making-of-documentary of Simba's Pride, the director said that Kovu is a teenage killer. And 5-year old lion is hardly a teenager anymore, whereas 3-years old would be. (Hence, just barely full-grown and still growing his mane.) The director also said that Romeo and Juliet were basically just children, implying that Kovu and Kiara were meant as children too, which again a 2,5 and 3 years old lions probably would be to their parents. Maybe not in real life again, but this is Disney's TLK lion world that do basically human way of thinking.

[TheLionPrince]

Sorry, I haven't responded to you in over 2 months. I've been really busy with schoolwork, but I never forgot this argument I had with you.

Aug 4, 2011 15:58:01 GMT 2 Kieran said:

And what is the reliable source the Wikipedia article uses? I can't imagine a source more reliable than the film's creators themselves. o.O Like, one can always draw lion behaviour facts from real lions and apply them to a film about lions...But I would sooner apply the facts from the film's makers. ;D.

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

A book source on Wikipedia states lionesses reproduce by the time they are 4 years old, as Nala has her first cub.

But adult Nala's age has never been officially stated and the age 4 is not the only year lionesses may have babies. Combined to how they don't have to start reproducing at that specific age. They're just capable to. Being able doesn't automatically mean you will choose to do it. I know real lions probably do and they do it like 50 times a day around the year apart from the time period lionesses' suckle their young...
...but these being Disney lions who apparently do not reproduce even as much as humans do...Hence, Simba and Nala appeared to be the only cubs in the pride formed by apparently two males and twenty lionessess (and possibly rogues allowed to mate with them.) And no cubs whatsoever during Scar's reign. Hence, as TLK lions don't act real life lion ways much, I wouldn't be so absolute with real lions' facts applying in this matter.

It is a book written by George Schaller, and I had been thinking that it is best to use the creators's words to apply to our theory of the timeline. Yes, LK's lions act more humans than real-life lions, but, I recall you using the 7-month age to apply for young Simba's age because that's the age when a lion cub's tail tuft are fully grown and when they can devour meat if that's a real-life fact. So, I feel I can still use real-lion facts, as long as it applies with the creators's visions.

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 @Kieran said:

I think it counts, because they did not say that they'd changed their minds. They said that they didn't include it because of some taste/visual issue, I don't remember the exact phrasing but it certainly was not as if they'd changed their minds about the years passing. It still is two years later in their intent.

Yeah, I should use the "Kenya, 2 years later" in my timeline theory. But, one question, is the 2-year time period after adult Simba is seen because it makes more sense if the 2-year-time period is played during the time cub Simba matures into an adult. You know, in the film, when cub Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa are dancing on the log.

Aug 4, 2011 15:58:01 GMT 2 Kieran said:

Aug 3, 2011 3:31:10 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

Plus, adult Simba at the end of Lion King didn't look as full-grown because in the official sequel, his mane is grown. So, Simba's self-exile would be 3½ years plus another ½ year for the Pridelands to replenish itself.

I'm thinking his mane is grown because the animators were different. Isn't the mane longer already in the opening scene of SP? And that, according to Kovu's animator, is the exact same scene we see at the end of TLK. As in it starts off exactly from where the first film left us, with nothing in between.

So, after all above, I'm sticking to my theory that Simba was around 7 years old at the end of TLK/beginning of SP.

Good point about Kovu possibly being 5-years old, for supposedly being able to challenge another male. But then again, was he? We don't exactly get to see him do that at any point. Perhaps Zira just thinks he was ready regardless of his too young age?

Regarding the Making-of-documentary of Simba's Pride, the director said that Kovu is a teenage killer. And 5-year old lion is hardly a teenager anymore, whereas 3-years old would be. (Hence, just barely full-grown and still growing his mane.) The director also said that Romeo and Juliet were basically just children, implying that Kovu and Kiara were meant as children too, which again a 2,5 and 3 years old lions probably would be to their parents. Maybe not in real life again, but this is Disney's TLK lion world that do basically human way of thinking.

Well, I'm not sure if Simba is 7 yrs old by the end of the first movie considering lions live up to 11-14 years in the wild so if Simba was 7 yrs, he had live pretty much half of his life. 4 years old make more sense since I like to think of Simba as being a young adult as do other fans. So, as soon as I have a couple of things cleared up, I'll let you know what my revised timeline theory is.

And, about Kovu’s age, if Darrell Rooney (director of The Lion King II) states Kovu is a teenaged killer, then, he’s a teenager. So, Kovu being 3-year-old makes more sense, as by that time, lions are growing their manes.

[Kieran]

Oct 15, 2011 0:10:51 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

It is a book written by George Schaller, and I had been thinking that it is best to use the creators's words to apply to our theory of the timeline. Yes, LK's lions act more humans than real-life lions, but, I recall you using the 7-month age to apply for young Simba's age because that's the age when a lion cub's tail tuft are fully grown and when they can devour meat if that's a real-life fact. So, I feel I can still use real-lion facts, as long as it applies with the creators's visions.

But you're throwing wild assumptions. You don't know the film makers' vision of adult Nala's age. The movie script says Simba to be "now a full grown cub" and in the film he asks for meat, so the only thing that can possibly mean, is at least 6 months old going on 7 as he's still a cub but not a suckling baby anymore + they design him to be around that age. But adult Nala (or Simba's for that matter) age has never been refered to in any verbal way and as all we have is their designs, the age can be anything in range of many years. It's not necessarely four years of age. Especially not just because lionesses can reproduce at that year. Because they can do so just the same also at older age. (I'd forgotten to mention the movie script's 'full grown cub' statement in the timeline post. I edited it there now.)

Oct 15, 2011 0:10:51 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

Yeah, I should use the "Kenya, 2 years later" in my timeline theory. But, one question, is the 2-year time period after adult Simba is seen because it makes more sense if the 2-year-time period is played during the time cub Simba matures into an adult. You know, in the film, when cub Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa are dancing on the log.

That does not make more sense, because:
1.) I'm basing this on the Laserdisc facts that they totally distinguished age designs between a cub, adolescent and adult. According to the movie script cub Simba is definitely some six months old when he meets Timon and Pumbaa and if he was there only for two years, he would be barely three years old at the adult scenes. And he has too full mane design for that young age.
2.) They intented the text after a scene changed into an entirely different one which in movie making usually means time passed since the previous scene. In this case, since we last saw adult Simba.

Oct 15, 2011 0:10:51 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

Well, I'm not sure if Simba is 7 yrs old by the end of the first movie considering lions live up to 11-14 years in the wild so if Simba was 7 yrs, he had live pretty much half of his life. 4 years old make more sense since I like to think of Simba as being a young adult as do other fans.

Again, these are not real life lions living in real wild. These are lions (and other animals) thinking with human mind-set. They can easily avoid the dangers, live their lives and feed themselves better than real wild lions and thus live just about as long as captured lions which can be 20 years. And 7 years old isn't exactly old anyway. They start slowly weakening from the age of 10 but that doesn't make them immediately frail and useless. And even if we did imagine TLK lions' age span to be the max. approximately 15 years...I personally prefer this older Simba reclaiming the throne. Much more dramatic and touching to me if he actually lost half his life because of his evil uncle, but still had many good years to come with a family of his own.

Oct 15, 2011 0:10:51 GMT 2 TheLionPrince said:

And, about Kovu’s age, if Darrell Rooney (director of The Lion King II) states Kovu is a teenaged killer, then, he’s a teenager. So, Kovu being 3-year-old makes more sense, as by that time, lions are growing their manes.

Yes, as I stated in my timeline theory.

[TheLionPrince]

Okay, now that's all cleared up. Here's my timeline theory:

• Infant baby Simba's presentation.
  
  
• 6 months later: Simba is a full grown cub. Mufasa dies, Simba is self-exiled, and Scar claims the throne.
  
  
• First adult Simba scene.
  (I estimate his self-exile is about 2½ years, therefore adult Simba would be 3 years old, the same age as when real lions have matured into adults.)
  
  
• 2 years later: Kovu and Vitani are born with Scar hand-choosing Kovu to be his heir during the final month of Scar's reign. Simba returns, defeats Scar, and becomes the king of Pride Rock. Zira and the Outsiders are banished.
  *I, too, speculate that Zira and the Outsiders were exiled at the start of Simba's reign.
  *Also, a male lion, when they are 4-5 years, challenge other lions to be the alpha lion for the pride so Simba is old enough to challenge Scar for the throne.
  
  
• 6 months later: The Pridelands have replenished, and Kiara is born. During the end of this period, Kiara is presented to the Pridelands.
  (I have also learned that lionesses are pregnant with their cubs for at least 3 months, which would fit within this time period.)
  
  
• 6 months later: Kiara is a full-grown cub evident by her tail tuft.
  (Kovu is a 1-year-old cub due to him being born at the start of the theorized 6 months of the Pridelands's replenishing and another 6 months for Kiara to grow into a lion cub.)
  
  
• 2 years later: Kovu is 3 yrs. old, and Kiara is 2½ years. The rest of the events of Simba's Pride are played out.
  
  

This timeline theory would cover about 7½ years.

[darkandtwistedtale]

I think Kiara might of been Conceived during CYFTLT, I'm not sure.

[bouncey]

i don't think so. they could not of had her during CYFTLT . they had just fallen in love.

[Kieran]

Yeah, it doesn't feel very Disney-like to vision couples having sex immediately at the first night after years of seperation since childhood. So I don't think they did anything more than kiss during CYFTLT.

[fushichokurayami]

Is anyone even still alive on this topic...Lolz!

[Kieran]

No, but I haven't really abandoned any of this. I'm so glad to see someone actually recently joined this board still. I'll be sending an e-mail to the current members to see if I could still get this board alive. ^^ Probably some more advertising wouldn't hurt, haven't done that for a long time.

[queen]

Ok, Ok everyone let's just slow down. We all have different theories so I'll introduce you my theory.
Male lions fuly grow their manes at 5 years of age, so Mufasa was 5 at the start of the movie. Then flash forward. Simba is an adult in the jungle and falls in love with Nala, meaning he has reached sexual maturity which occurs at age 3-4. The first adult Simba scene must've had him at 2 - 3 years old,remembering the Kenya, 2 years later. Simba returns and fights Scar at age 5 since male lions will kill other males at that age. Meanwhile Nuka is born most likely when Simba is 3 since he isn't a fully grown adult when Kiara is a cub. Then 2.5 years later, Vitani and Kovu are born, but since they are close in age and height, we can assume the mating between Zira and her undiscovered mate occured closer to a year, or less than a year since that's the mating time between lions. So Kovu is 5 years younger than Simba.
I researched and a drought will end in 2 months, so Simba ruled for that time before the Pridelands went green. If Simba and Nala mated in the jungle, then Kiara would be born a few months after Scar's death since she was already conceived long prior. It took a long PERIOD of time to get back to the desert giving Kovu time to age. Then 6 months after Scar's death, Kiara is born and add some time to te film. Kovu is a year and 6 months old, so he is growing his hair tuft. But he was close to a Year's age by Scar's death. Then go forward. Kiara is about 4, since 3 she has reached sexual maturity and Kovu is about 3-4 since he is described as a teenage killer.


If Kiara was conceived after Scar died, then she would be at least 6 months younger than Kovu who would be 1 year and 7 months older than Kiara and that age in General. Then Kiara is 3 while Kovu is 3-4 years old. Still teens years old.

So the film universe either takes place within 9 or 8 years, meaning Simba is REALLY old