If Scar was the first born

[Kieran]

I found this thought from another forum and thought it's an awfully interesting topic. Thank you, phantomred, for this idea.

So, if Scar was the first born and Mufasa the little brother, what would The Lion King be like?

Would Scar still be the sucky king or would he have learned the right values? What would Mufasa do in either case? Would Simba be Scar's son?

If Scar was the bad king and Simba his son, I think it would make an interesting setting. If Mufasa as the uncle would've tried to teach him better but while it would be a challenge because Simba as a cub had Scar's attitude about kingship and of course his father would be the one he looks up to the most--and what if Scar also wouldn't approve of it because Mufasa was only the uncle?

But I think it could actually be almost the same as it is now, just that Scar would actually have a "justifying" reason to do all that he does and the ending drama would have even more depth and complexity to it. As Simba would indeed be the rightful king because his grandparents decided Mufasa as the rightful king. But in Scar's mind it of course would've been different because he was the first born.

Wow, now I wish Disney made an AU movie with something like this!

[Gemma]

If Scar was the rightful king, I expect his reigning parent would have trained him to become a good king throughout his life, the way we saw Mufasa start to do with Simba (and undoubtedly would've done if he hadn't died suddenly). I expect Mufasa went under the same kind of training before his reign. Whether or not Scar did too is unknown; I think he should have done since it was unknown to them that Mufasa would definitely have a cub, but if he was trained them his training may not have been as serious (or maybe Mufasa was expected to continue his training once he was king).

Should this be the case, then I'd like to think Scar would have turned out to be a somewhat better king (even if he did still end up less responsible than Mufasa as a king). I also had a feeling that, in the film, it was the hyenas who caused the lionesses to overhunt, which was how the Pridelands became destroyed? I'll have to check that information, but if that's the case I think that would change too...

If Scar was king then I don't think he would actually have an army of hyenas. I don't know how he first befriended them in the film, but thought it might have something to do with the fact that he had a need for power and the rest of the pride followed his brother, not him. That may not be true though; perhaps there was another reason why he would hang out with them and being king might not have stopped this. But basically, if he had a pride of lionesses then he may have not bothered with hyenas too.

Whether or not the Pridelands ended up getting destroyed, I would still like to think that Scar was naturally very power-hungry. Sure, maybe it's normal for princes to feel a bit jealous when their brother's the king, and sure, he would've been disappointed when Simba's birth meant he was no longer next in line. But even so, to go as far as killing Mufasa and banishing Simba suggests that there's definitely something not right about him!

I don't think Mufasa would've been like that. I imagine he would have been more supportive of Scar during his reign. Maybe he too would have felt a bit of jealousy if Scar had a cub, but even if he did then certainly not enough to commit a crime.

During Scar's reign (in the film) he was shown to just enjoy the power and glory, and didn't care about his responsibilities. So if he had a cub I doubt he would have done a very good job training them up. Of course, like I said earlier if Scar himself received the right training he may have been a better king anyway, so his cub's training may depend on his own training.

In this alternate version, I would still like to think that Simba's parents are still Mufasa and Sarabi. But I also think that, as a king, Scar would have been likely to end up with a mate and cubs too. Somehow, I think it would've been easier for him to find a mate if he'd been king all along!

This would have made Simba the cousin to the heir of the throne. In the canon world, he acted a bit like the lion version of a typical "rich kid" in places. Still part of the royal family, he may be a little like this in the alternate universe too, though not quite as much. Scar's cub, however, I imagine to be very snobby and irresponsible, taking their luxuries for granted.

And perhaps Mufasa would have stepped in and attempted to teach Scar's cub how to be a good monarch. Perhaps eventually this cub would change, start to look up to Mufasa instead of Scar, and Scar would start to feel jealous, thinking that Mufasa is trying to "steal" his cub away from him.

Or it could go in another direction. Maybe Scar trains this cub to be a fighter and how to take control of the pride. Perhaps eventually, when both Mufasa and Scar are old and Scar decides to resign as king, the pride get into a fight, debating that Simba should be the new king, instead of letting Scar's child take the throne. The two candidates could battle each other for the throne.

Or maybe another direction: during Scar's reign, Mufasa decides that Scar fails at being king, takes Sarabi and Simba and start off their own pride. Except I think it would probably be out of character for Mufasa to abandon Scar like that, and would hope he'd be more likely to help him and his cub than this!

Well, that's a few of my ideas. It is an interesting topic though. I like "alternate universe" theories. ;D

[Kieran]

May 18, 2011 18:22:21 GMT 2 Gemma said:

I also had a feeling that, in the film, it was the hyenas who caused the lionesses to overhunt, which was how the Pridelands became destroyed? I'll have to check that information, but if that's the case I think that would change too...

I don't think there's ever been any direct confirmation on what it was. But by the film's content I'd say it was Scar and not the hyenas. Or at least Scar the most crucially. Scar had the power to decide whether the hyenas get what they want or not. They called Scar "boss" and took it up to him when there was no food and the lionesses wouldn't hunt. And then Scar called Sarabi out for it. I believe Scar had no reason to fear the hyenas's evident over-numbering of the lion pride because evidently the hyenas respected Scar (or at least didn't openly disrespect) even at the point of such starvation. They turned on him not a second before he called them the enemy. So it seems like Scar pulled all the stings including making the lionesses over-hunt, and did so because he wanted to.

But I agree, if Scar was the king in the first place, he might not have bothered with the hyenas whether they were "friends" or not. I think he made his promise to them only because he needed them in order to execite the murder attempts of Mufasa and Simba.

May 18, 2011 18:22:21 GMT 2 Gemma said:

Whether or not the Pridelands ended up getting destroyed, I would still like to think that Scar was naturally very power-hungry. Sure, maybe it's normal for princes to feel a bit jealous when their brother's the king, and sure, he would've been disappointed when Simba's birth meant he was no longer next in line. But even so, to go as far as killing Mufasa and banishing Simba suggests that there's definitely something not right about him!

True. I think he was born capable of doing evil more easily than most. He seems to have been born as one of those people who lack empathy and some other such crucial emotions and thus can't consider others' emotions and the consequences of his actions as well as normal people. This is why I don't think he'd been too good of a king in any case.

As I've said elsewhere I do not think Scar ever planned to kill anyone until Simba was growing up and with his scar-like attitude towards kingship, started to remind Scar of himself while Simba still looked up to Mufasa and Scar thought his attitudes would make be the better king. As in the entire exsistence of Simba was too much when the boy was so much like him and would get to be the king yet so potential to change into something Scar didn't see as fit. No matter what Simba would've done, he wa being judged harsh in his uncle's eyes. Also, I think the only reason why Scar ended up murdering Mufasa too, was because he believed there was no way murdering the son as long as the father was there to save him.

We all have our dark side and we just choose to or not to give into it when it tempts us. Scar chose to. Some of us find ways to escape it or ask help.

Whereas Mufasa seemed to have been born the complete opposite in emotional terms. Even to the degree he was downriht blue-eyed even though growing up wit this brother. (Suppsing they did, as no one knows how complicated the true canon backstory actually is.)

So, I think they as kings didn't have too much to do with training but their basic personalities and abilities to feel. Those things that naturally do change, develop and are set during growing up to a certain age but some characteristics never change, the core personality. And of course depending also on their relationships with the tarining parent. Certainly training would affect but how much is questionable in the end.

May 18, 2011 18:22:21 GMT 2 Gemma said:

Or it could go in another direction. Maybe Scar trains this cub to be a fighter and how to take control of the pride. Perhaps eventually, when both Mufasa and Scar are old and Scar decides to resign as king, the pride get into a fight, debating that Simba should be the new king, instead of letting Scar's child take the throne. The two candidates could battle each other for the throne.

Wow, I'd have loved to see this Lion King! It would've also made the final battle so much more original seeing to the standards of Disney animated films.

[TheLionPrince]

Gemma listed some very interesting theories, but I have a few of mine. Allow me to show you.

• Scar would be betrothed to Sarabi:
  
  Zazu mentions to Simba and Nala that they are betrothed, and that it was a common tradition in the Pridelands that "goes back generations". This indicates that Mufasa, when he was a crown prince, was betrothed to Sarabi. Now, if Scar was the firstborn heir to the throne, then, he would be betrothed to Sarabi.
  
  
• Simba's existance
  
  With Scar being the father, it's possible Simba, as we know today, wouldn't exist as it's likely Scar could have a female heir. However, if Scar has a male heir, it's possible Simba (most likely with a different name) could exist because Mufasa and Scar share similiar genetic traits, as well have Sarabi's genetic traits, but would Simba would have different coloring. I speculate Simba would have brown-colored pelt fur as it seems the dominant pelt fur comes from the father of the cub i.e. Simba's fur comes from Mufasa and Kovu's fur comes from his father as Zira doesn't have brown pelt fur.
  
  
• Mufasa would have a harsh childhood
  
  Since Mufasa in this alternate timeline is in Scar's shoes in the original film, I speculate Mufasa would have had a troubled childhood. In The Lion King musical, during the "Madness of King Scar" number, Scar mentions nothing loved him as a cub, and Roger Allers and Irene Mecchi (the co-director and co-screenwriter of the original film) wrote the book for the musical as a documentary interview on the 2003 Lion King DVD bonus features credited them as so, so the musical is a canon adaptation of the original film. Because of this, it's a valid case of what Mufasa's childhood would have been if he was the younger brother.
  
  
• Mufasa would attempt to usurp the throne
  
  With the possibility of Mufasa having a troubled childhood, it's a plausible theory that Mufasa would be jealous of Scar, and who knows, may even kill him to usurp the throne, and drove out Scar's heir to have to regain the throne. I don't think Mufasa would need any help from the hyenas, since Mufasa was enough to challenge another male lion face-to-face.
  
  Because of his jealously, Mufasa would have thoughts and feelings that Scar thought in the original film like thinking he is more superior than Scar to be king.
  
  But, I like Gemma's theory that Mufasa would be supportive of his brother because he suits Mufasa's character as we know today.
  
  

[darkandtwistedtale]

Interesting..maybe because we are unsure how their parents act since we don't know their canon parents. It may depend how Scar and Mufasa were raised by them.

[queen]

If Scar was the firstborn then things would change.
First off, I think he would be a sucky King. Just think: Simba knew he was going to be King,so he acted entitled to it and a bit of a brat, thinking he was above everyone else. Scar did that to a more villainous degree. So if Scar was first born, he's be in Simba's shoes. But Simba developed throughout the story, gaining emotional scars and trauma, facing his past, acceptance responsibility and that made him a good king. But if Scar just grew up and got the role, he would be a sucky King. In Confused Matthews words "He didn't grow, he didn't change, he just rebooted!" The first born Scar would be selfish and entitled as a adult.
Now I think Scar and Sarabi would be an item since according to Zazu, betrothal is a tradition. So Scar and Sarabi would have Simba. If Mufads retain his character he would possibly be a good uncle to Simba and maybe get it through Scar's thick skull that he is a shit King.
Or maybe it would be a reverse of the story. Scar has a son, Myfasa tries to kill him, but in the end, kills Scar and exiles Simba. Simba kills Mufasa. I love the thought of Kovu being Mufasa's heir.