Kovu v Simba

[queen]

So in TLK 2, Zira trains Kovu to murder Simba, something he almost accomplishes. We're expected to believe that Kovu made the right choice by not attacking Simba because that would've been the end to our little lion. But...... I have something to say. In the ambush scene, Kovu attempts to defend Simba, but is knocked out by a SINGLE HIT. Meanwhile, Simba survives nearly being ripped apart by bloodthirsty lionesses, TWICE IN THE SAME DAY. ..... Zira actually trusted her teenage son in killing this adult lion who could easily survive an attack from him?

I mention this because now we know Simba and Kovu's strengths and weaknesses. So here is the question; If Kovu managed to attack Simba, and Simba refused to go down without a fight, who would win? Let's analyze even more shall we?

In the first movie, as a cub, Simba was pinned down by Nala, TWICE. So we know that as a cub, he had his strengths and weaknesses, one being easily pinned down. But he is shown to be very swift, seeing as he escaped a trio of hyenas who wanted his head, twice. However, soon after he is shown growing up in the jungle, living off of tiny bugs. The filmmakers themselves don't even know how he would grow so big off of insects alone. I believe a video by Film Theory said that Simba would need to eat 1,000 to 1,000,00 bugs a day just to last 120 hours. When he's a young adult, he's shown to be slightly muscular. However, that could've been from Mufasa's genes. But regardless, this didn't prove Simba any good in fighting since he got his tail kicked by Nala as an adult. So he's still weak as an adult, but is strong enough to hold his own will on the defensive side. I back this up with the scene where Simba throws Scar off Pride Rock. In that fight, Simba was able to go off on the defensive, but not completely on the offensive. My only guess is his advantage was that Scar's old age, and shallow end at the gene pool, kept him from being able to instantly override Simba's defense. Either way, Simba is shown to be moderately strong as a young adult in the first movie.


Now for Kovu. Kovu was born during Scar's reign, so obviously there was a lack of food there. But Kovu was likely only 5 months old by the time Scar died, so we don't know if Kovu was slim or not. However, in the Outlands, we see Kovu as a young cub, and buffer than Vitani. This leads me to believe the Outsiders fed Kovu more with the little food they found in the Outlands. Now, Kovu shouldn't look that much like a Pridelander, so obviously there's something more. As established, Scar was not Kovu's biological father, so that means Kovu's biological father had to have had some strong genes, since the only option is Zira, who appears to be slim, (although Kovu could've inherited it from his grandfather on Zira's side). Anyways, that is Kovu's features as a cub; Well fed, and inheriting the deep end of the gene pool. 

Now let's go to him as an adolescent. The director describes him as a "teen killer." So he could be the equivalent of a 18-19 year old. Now, Kovu is shown to be a strong swimmer as he carries Kiara across the river. In addition, he has good ambush skills, since he teaches Kiara how to hunt. This makes me believe Zira taught Kovu how to ambush the enemy, and do it quickly. So Kovu can go on the offensive side, but only from ambushing and not from actually straight out battles. Zira likely expected Kovu to be smart enough to attack from behind, and not in front of Simba's face since she believed that he'd kill Kovu like he "killed" Scar. And because of this, she never taught him how to go on the defensive side, or go on the offensive with his opponent's knowledge, which is likely how he got knocked out easily.


Now onto TLK 2 Simba. He's clearly more buff than he was in the first film, which is likely because he retained his diet, and due to age. So now he's older and stronger than he was. However, we don't see him go on the offensive side. We mainly see him defend against Outsider lionesses. Now, those are the same lionesses who knocked Kovu out with one hit. So it's clear that Simba holds a better chance against them when it comes to defending. And he appears to withstand a lot of pain as he is constantly beaten up by female lionesses, yet he manages to survive.

AS A RESULT;

Simba's Strengths: Can go on the defensive and is very swift when it comes to escaping enemies.

Simba's Weaknesses: Can't go too well on the offensive, and is easily overpowered if he does so. Requires brains over brawn to hand it to his opponent.

Kovu's Strengths: Is extremely stealthy, is a powerful swimmer, which ultimately means he is powerfully nimble, and is a ferocious ambush predator, can go on the offensive by surprise.

Kovu's Weaknesses: Can't OPENLY go on the offensive, or go on the defensive, and as a result, can easily be overpowered by anyone he attacks.


Now for the fight. Here is what I imagine would happen.


If Kovu attacked Simba at the time he was going to in the movie, Simba would've been taken by surprise, and Kovu likely would've had a good fight. However, Simba being defensive, would've held a good fight against Kovu. With each of their strengths and weaknesses, it would've been a fair fight for a while, but as I see, eventually, Simba would've defended himself as he would have clear knowledge of what's happening. As I see it, in the battle, Simba would overpower Kovu on the defensive, and Kovu wouldn't hold much of a fight. So in the end, Simba would be the victor, but would retain several injuries, so I would see him either dying off, or being too weak to hold another fight.

Now, this would've angered Zira even more, so she'd obviously lead an attack on Simba's pride. If Simba was too weak to fight, Zira would take him out in seconds. If he was dead, she'd easily take over, and Nala and Kiara would've been on her hitlists.

So if Kovu and Simba fought, then it would've lead to Kovu's death, but in the end, Zira re-taking the Pride Lands. So Zira basically sent her son out on a suicide mission. What a sh*tty mother!

What are your thoughts?

Who would win? Kovu, or Simba?

[Kieran]

Your theory definitely fits Zira's character. Personally, I think Kovu might have very well killed Simba in that scene had he attacked. And Zira most certainly would have in the war scene. Simba might not have been that good at surviving an attack with an intent to kill. Even from someone whose training was incomplete when it comes to strategies.

Because whilst Simba was swift to escape enemies as a very young cub, he had no need to do so in the jungle where he ended up at that age. He grew up in an environment that did not require him to maintain and further develop such a skill. Same goes with the defensive fighting. I can't really see him having many chances of practising escaping and defensive fighting in the jungle, so especially with the now much larger adult body he's not used to escaping or fighting with, he would be in big trouble. As that Film Theory video also pointed out a diet of only insects would have made his teeth and bite force really weak, so that's yet another weapon he's lost by the time he's an adult. The fact that Nala won quickly in the jungle goes to show that he would be killed by any young and healthy experienced fighter, of his own species anyway.

Of course it was a few years between his return and teenage Kovu's arrival, so he would have had some time to get used to his large adult body in a normal environment as well as gain some strength. But even so, how and where would Simba have practised swiftness and any kind of fighting as a king? I mean, enough to hold his own against someone younger than him who was literally trained to murder him. The hyenas were gone, Zira and the others were exiled likely immediately, and I doubt they were constantly trying to return because Simba ha donly Timon and Pumbaa babysitting Kiara instead of adult lions. The pride didn't appear to have any other males with whom he could practice fighting. And I can't really see him practise fighting with his lionesses who are needed to hunt and care for cubs and aren't exactly the same as a muscular, aggressive male lion with a protective main on their neck. Also, I don't know but I doubt his teeth/bite force would have recovered after a bug diet at such a crucial developmental stage.

It's been some years since I last watched TLK2 but I think Simba escaped Zira's pride's ambush attack only because the log/tree trunk whatever that was, dislodged and killed Nuka which drew everyone's attention / made Zira stop.